Quick Question
Im appropriately scared of things that are scary, and most things are not scary.
Smart people like it.
Do you think you grok that at this point?
Sometimes I dont think you do.
To fired CNN anchorChris Cuomo: I was with my brother last night.
Very close to my brother.
I would not have helped him if he was in a situation like that.
And toHillary Clinton: The stuff you saidabout Monica Lewinsky.
Really disturbing to me and a lot of women.
Do you want a redo on that one?
Why say something like that, when shes a young woman, in a position of not power?)
What I like to do is give people a chance to explain themselves, and Im fair about it.
Then its up to them to really make the argument, Swisher, 59, tells Bustle.
Im like, Youre obfuscating.
And in a world full of noise, her cut-the-B.S.
approach has an impact.
Shortly after the interview, Matze lost his job, and Parler was removed from the internet.
(Ithas since relaunchedunder new management.)
To attempt to make a difference.
One of the most remarkable things about you is your utter lack of fear.
What advice do you have for people to be braver in their lives?
Well, Im not unafraid.
Im just appropriately scared of things that are scary, and most things are not scary.
I think we put ourselves into situations where we think we dont have power when we actually do.
I dont give them that power over me.
They find it surprising, especially from a woman.
If you make a mistake, you dont spiral or over-apologize.
I think people make mistakes and then you move on.
Im good at moving on.
You wanted to join the CIA after college, but being gay was a roadblock.
That spurred you toward journalism?
I thought I was going to go into military intelligence.
Its what I studied in school.
At the time they had dont ask, dont tell.
It was not possible to live a real I live a very out life in general.
Not just gay out.
But I am what I am.
I would have loved to serve our country.
But it wasnt to be.
Journalism was a good choice, too.
Youve been called the best interviewer in journalism.
What makes a good interview?
Being willing to ask the question that everybody wants without being reticent.
Listening, of course, is a really important thing.
I do plot out interviews, but at the same time, I shift when it shifts.
You have to be very nimble.
Lots of people interviewed Monica Lewinsky, but nobody didthe one I did.
Because youre willing to ask what no one else will?
Im very interested in what I want to know.
And I trust my taste.
I actually dont think thats whatthe booksaid.
Youre hearing what the media said.
If you actually read the book, its a little more nuanced than that.
So Im going to push back on the premise of that idea.
She wasnt saying, If youre unsuccessful, its your fault.
She never said that.
Ive written a lot of verycritical things about Sheryl.
She deserves a lot of criticism for what happened at Facebook.
Youve got to get into positions of power to do something about it, right?
Youve talked about Instagram being harmful to the mental health of young women.
Ive written about studies.
Yes, its not your opinion.
I noticed you havent posted on Instagram since March of 2021.
Yes, I dont use any Facebook properties.
I just dont like them.
I find them invasive.
I dont know what the pleasure is there.
Essentially, theyre getting everything out of it and Im not.
They have terrible privacy policies, and I dont feel like helping their business.
Will you take your content down from Instagram?
Ill just leave it there where it is.
I used it and then I decided it had no usefulness for me.
I dont need to be performative about my life there.
I think its performative for a lot of people, and addicting, and I dont enjoy it.
I have problems with Twitter, but its a product I enjoy.
What advice do you find yourself giving over and over, and to whom?
I have three sons, but I also have a daughter now.
I think learning to say no properly and not being pleasing is important for women.
You dont have to c’mon people.
You should think about whatyouwant more than whats offered to you.
I talk all the time about how youll be dead in 50 years.
You only have a short amount of time on this planet.
You might as well take advantage of it.
My dad died when I was 5 so I have a very big sense of mortality.
It was 50 years ago.
He had just gotten out of the Army.
He had three kids.
He got a big new job.
Life is like that.
How did you do it?
I have two new kids now.
So how the hell do you do it?
Oh gosh, Im not a perfect parent, but I do think Im a very good parent.
I let them be who they are.
Im more like, eh, itll work out.
Its not tough love or anything like that, but I tend to let them make mistakes.
And then I help them when theyre struggling.
My son had a really bad freshman year because of Covid.
Hes not a depressive person but hes like, This sucks!
And Im like, Yeah it sucks.
Then he wanted to take the year off and work.
And I said, That sounds great.
Youre magically free of neuroses.
Someone asked me, Have you ever done therapy?
I said, no, not really.
I have nothing against it.
It helps a lot of people.
And there are a lot of people I think should go to therapy.
They said, Youre blocking.
And I said, Well, its working!Im not at all neurotic.
You know what I do?
I think if you dont love what youre doing, youll have a miserable life.
I really love what I do.
Theres that quote, On your deathbed, you wont remember your work.
Im like, why?
I love my work.
Did you have rules around cellphones when they were growing up?
Like all the tech execs whodont let their kids go on the internet and send them to Waldorf schools?
That story was overblown.
No, I dont.
I make them put the phones down at dinner.
I make a run at ensure theyre not obsessed with them.
But I have the same rules about television.
Its just things that occupy your brain.
You have to look up.
And literally every single person always apologizes.
They say, Oh my God, Im so sorry.
And I say, You should be.
You really need to not do that.
I think I need to break up with my phone.
Or put it to bed under thelittle sheetthat Arianna Huffington invented.
She tried to give me one.
I said, No.
Youonce said, I think people who are sensitive probably dont do as well with me.
Do you think Gen Z is too sensitive?
Or do you think they are right to talk openly about things like mental illness and trauma?
I dont think they are overly sensitive.
Listen, everybodys world is tough, right?
Its a tough world.
They should be worried about it.
We dont focus on mental illness enough.
But its also a trope, right?
Like, Young people are… Like, allof them?
In allparts of the world?
One of the problems I have in general is reductiveness.
Youve covered Silicon Valley since the 90s.
We debate a lot in my house about Jeff Bezos going to space.
Why do you care?
Because I feel like the money could be used for better things.
It feels like vanity to me.
I know space exploration is vital and important.
OK, thats his choice, right?
I feel like if he wants to spend the money on that, he should.
I dont think its our business to tell people what to do with their money.
And Im not their mama.
Where do you actually have impact?
With your own children.
And actually, we do need to go to space.
With climate change, its really important that we focus on other choices for the human race.
What do you think of Kim Kardashian saying, It seems like nobody wants to work these days?"
I think shes a hard worker and she probably disdains people who dont work hard.
Ive interviewed her a couple of times.
I like Kim a lot.
I think she comes from an era where you just put your shoulder in and go to work.
A lot of young people are thinking, Why am I wasting my time working?
And I get why theyre doing that.
Youre looking at a planet thats being destroyed.
After the pandemic, theres all kinds of mental illness.
Wanting to focus on yourself that makes sense.
But she and I come from an era where work is rewarding.
And she loves it.
So its frustrating for someone like her when people are like, I only want to work 35 hours.
I want work-life balance.
She doesnt have work-life balance.
She just has work.
She shouldnt have clarified it.
She should have just let it stand.
Yeah, well, Im on his side.
Dont work for Elon.
Dont complain about it.
If you dont agree with him, dont work for him.
This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
This article was originally published onOct.
